The Soccer Blog: Arsenal

Tuesday, 22 February 2011

Arsenal - Stoke Preview

Arsenal – Stoke Preview - The Offside - Arsenal blog

« Replays Ahoy! Plus RvP Wants Only To Win With Arsenal & Vela Finally Scores an Important Goal | Home | Arsenal – Stoke PreviewBy: Martin | February 22nd, 2011
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Stoke City

Position: 10th, 10-3-13 (33 points, -2 goal differential)

Away Form: 3-1-9 (10 points, -7 goal differential)

Recent Form: WLLWL

Last Meeting: Stoke City 1 – Arsenal 3 (February 27, 2010)

Arsenal back in league action tomorrow against Stoke City, in a match that was originally scheduled for December but got snowed out.

It’s a bit weird, because there’s not that much history between Arsenal and Stoke City in the grand scheme of things. But in recent years, this has been a pretty explosive rivalry, and outside of our traditional rivals, and maybe Barcelona, I would posit that there’s no team Arsenal fans hate more than Stoke City. Excuse me for taking the lazy blogger’s way out, but I did write a preview for this match just a couple of months ago before it was postponed, so I’m going to repost much of that here.

It’s also obviously important for emotional and psychological reasons. The last time we met was the Aaron Ramsey game, which knocked him out of action for 9 months. I remember watching that game in a bar full of Gunners, and once everyone realized what had happened, the place really got eerily silent. One dude may have been crying, but was definitely hysterical, talking about how the FA should be ashamed of themselves for letting teams like Stoke do things like this. Everyone else just kind of watched, it was kind of a fog. I don’t believe in things like deja vu, but that may be the closest I’ve ever come — the parallels to the Birmingham/Eduardo game two years prior were scary. And just like the Birmingham game, it looked like we were going to drop points and help kill off our title chances. But we didn’t — goals from Cesc and Vermaelen, very late, pulled out the win for us. And it just felt like we had gotten over some hurdle, that this year was going to be different, that this team had taken the next step. At that moment, when the players huddled together after the match, I believed this team would win the league, and I believed Fabregas was going to push us on. Alas, it was not to be — Cesc broke his leg not too long after, we suffered a raft of other injuries, and the team was a shambles in April and May.

So there is certainly an element of antipathy between the teams. Wenger has (correctly) pointed to Stoke as an example of a team that uses anti-football and physical, bullying tactics that put players from the other team in danger. Ironically, considering how tough and manly they fancy themselves, Stoke has gone crying to the media and the FA about Arsenal’s “intimidation” tactics. Their manager, Tony Pulis, really is a weasel-faced, cap-wearing little twat of a man. They are an easy team to dislike, and so much of the build-up has been about the Ramsey/Shawcross incident.

Wenger has urged fans to treat Ryan Shawcross with “respect.” Fat chance of that happening. Fans are going to boo him lustily each and every time he touches the ball, which he deserves. They have apparently arranged for an extra security detail to make sure fans don’t come onto the pitch to attack him. I don’t really think that’s necessary, but better safe than sorry, I suppose. But as we’ve discussed before, this is not an isolated incident with Shawcross — he has injured multiple players in his career through reckless tackling, and he IS that type of player. So boo on, Arsenal fans, I’ll be booing with you in spirit.

One thing I would like to see, though, is a very warm welcome given to Stoke player Glenn Whelan. It was Whelan, remember, who, when all the Arsenal players were alarmed and disgusted by what had happend, had the presence of mine to realize that there was a scared 18 year-old who just had his leg snapped in half laying on the pitch. Whelan was the one who went over to Ramsey and stayed there with him while the doctors talked to him and got him strapped onto the gurney. Aaron spoke afterwards about how important that was, and Whelan really deserves a warm welcome for what he did that day. Hopefully Arsenal fans at the Emirates will remember that and give it to him.

But I hope the Ramsey thing doesn’t overshadow what is an important match in its own right. As I have discussed, Stoke is a pretty decent side away from home, and they could give us some problems.

There’s no real mystery about Stoke at this point. Their name has become synonymous with a certain style of play which, although indusputably effective, is dangerous, horrible to watch, and very, very cynical. They have some big, strong, guys, and they will try to stay tight at the back, keep everyone behind the ball, and try to boot the ball upfield and try to draw fouls and set pieces in our area.

Stoke’s top scorer, with 6 goals, is actually center back Robert Huth, “the Berlin Wall” — the 6′3 defender is good in the air and contributes from corner-kicks and those damnable throw-ins. Their most skillful player is probably former Spurs and West Ham winger Matthew Etherington, who has chipped in with 4 goals and 6 assists, and they’ve also got former Sunderland striker Kenwyne Jones, on loan Aston Villa striker John Carew, and former Arsenal man Jermaine Pennant.

Huth and Shawcross will be the key men at the back. We know what kind of player Shawcross is. Delap, Whitehead, and Pennant will be crucial players in the midfield, and it will be interesting to see if they play 5 in midfield with just Jones up top, or play 4 with Jones and Carew. Given that they’re away from home, I suspect it might be the former.

In team news for us, there really isn’t any. At least not yet, anyway — Wenger has taken the unusual step of cancelling the pre-match press conference, which has drawn him criticism from some corners of the press. I wish he had kept it on, because I like finding out about the news, but given the tensions between these two sides, and the inevitably Shawcross/Pulis questions he would get (which he got, and answered, in the previous pre-match press conference for this match before it was snowed out), I don’t really have any problem with him doing a one-off of cancelling this one. His record with the press is generally very good, and certainly better than, say, Alex Ferguson, so I don’t think he really deserves any criticism here.

But the long-term guys (Flaps, Vermaelen, Frimpong) are still out. Diaby is still suspended. And as far as I know, everyone else is available (will update this space if this turns out to be not the case). (UPDATE: van Persie and Koscienly are out injured.) Here’s my best guess at the lineup:

Wojo

Sagna-Squillaci-Djourou-Clichy

Wilshere-Song

Theo-Cesc-Nasri

Bendtner

Bench: Almunia, Miquel, Eboue, Denilson, Rosicky, Arshavin, Chamakh

Wojo comes back into the side as keeper. I think Sagna and Clichy are our full-backs for both this match and the cup final on Sunday. With Koscielny hurt, I think Squillaci comes in and partners Djourou — Squillaci worries me, but he was okay against Leyton Orient and has played well alongside Djourou in the past. We’ll see our first-choice midfielders come back in, too — Jack, Song, and Cesc. Up front, Theo and Nasri will almost certainly start. Up front, I guess Wenger has the option of starting either Chamakh or Bendtner — my money is on Bendtner, although I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Chamakh get a start (Chamakh would also have the bonus of helping us with our set piece defending). The lineup pretty much writes itself, really, and I’d be surprised if we see anything other than that. But I guess it wouldn’t stun to see Eboue, Arshavin, or Denilson get a spot over someone. The injuires to van Persie and Koscielny are worrying, but hopefully they’ll be fit and ready for the Carling Cup final on Sunday.

In other news, it was announced last night that Arsenal have signed Spanish U16 midfielder Jon Miquel Toral from the Barcelona academy. He wasn’t under contract, since he is not yet 16, and while reports are unclear, we appear to have signed him without Barcelona’s consent, although we did give them a €350,000 “training allowance” which is apparently just a good-will gesture. There isn’t too much info out there on Toral — some say he was highly regarded by Barcelona, others say that he’s not in the same league as Cesc was, and that Toral was never likely to break into Barca’s first-team anyway.

I know there’s some schadenfreude about taking another promising player cheaply off of Barcelona, and adding a quality prospect for that money is good for the club, but I have to admit I’m kind of uneasy about this. For one, I’m not sure how it’s different from us signing Merida — we signed him when he was 16, and Barca took us to court and we ended up being ordered to pay over €3 million for him, so I’m not sure something similar won’t happen here (although I admittedly am fuzzy on the rules here). But more than that, as the Bunk would say, “Aw yeah . . . that golden rule.” If we’re poaching other clubs’ 16 year-olds, it’s not fair for us to expect them to respect our youth players. And if Barca or someone else had swooped in and picked off one of our highly regarded youth players not yet old enough to sign a contract, and expected us to be happy with a few hundred grand, you bet your ass every Arsenal fan would be livid. I just think we should live by the rules we expect others to live by and I’m not sure we have here. The bottom line, I guess, is that FIFA or UEFA needs to step in and do something to keep this from happening if that’s important, and Arsenal apparently didn’t break any rules with this signing. But it seems like every time I voice a similar sentiment I get told that I need to be nicer or more optimistic (or just straight up called an asshole or whatever or something similar), so I’ve said my piece and I’ll be quiet now.

Anyway, back to more immediate concerns. This is a massive match — Manchester United don’t have a midweek match this week, so this gives us a chance to get within 1 point and let them feel the breath on our neck going into their game in hand this weekend, an away match (albeit away to Wigan). We really can’t afford to drop many points on the way in if we are to have any chance of winning the league, and we certainly can’t afford to drop points at home against teams like Stoke.

We have to take our chances, because they will set out the stall to keep us from getting many chances. We will have to need courage, because they will kick us up and take the physical aspect of this match as far as the referee allows. And we have to be very careful conceding set pieces — our full-backs, in particular, need to look for ways to keep the ball in play, and not kick the ball out of bounds or behind for a corner unless they absolutely have to, because Stoke have beaten us several times the last few years on goals scored from free-kicks and mainly from Delap’s throw-ins.

It’s going to be a tough one, but if we buckle down and focus, there’s no reason why we shouldn’t be able to take 3 points from this one.

Come on Arsenal.

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Category: Arsenal News, Fixtures, Premiership, Stoke City

Tags: Arsenal News, Fixtures, Premiership, Stoke City
Tweet « Replays Ahoy! Plus RvP Wants Only To Win With Arsenal & Vela Finally Scores an Important Goal | Home | JonathanWow. Some very ignorant stoke fans posting on this blog. Go on home stoke bloggers go on home, have you got no f@*kin blog of off your own!SJGgumbyThe real question is - will this thread lead to a "dislike" option?sandra350And how weird is Tony Pulis? He doesn't train with the players but he SHOWERS with his players after every game.sandra350Hey guys, did you know all Stoke players must pass a course in How to Use a Towel? All Stoke staff must know the basics of making and washing towels. And all Stoke fans have massive towel collections--their favorite pasttime is trading towels, that's why none of them bother to post on Stoke blogs. They just post on Arsenal blogs.Davebunch2001Im not trying to start any big argument with what Im about to post, so Ill try and write this in such away as not to incite anyone, but when you say "when all the Arsenal players were alarmed and disgusted by what had happend" which Im sure they were, why then, have you decided to leave out the fact that a number of your players started to kick off so to say, on the stoke players, namely Sol Campbell charging around shouting and gesturing in the faces of other players by doing so completely ignoring their own team mate laying on the floor. Its good that you mention Whelan and his part in this but it is only fair that you highlight the short comings of your own plays to help an injured team mate, which I thought was equally as horrific as the incident its self.MartinWell, maybe it's a fair point. I don't disagree, and thought that it was on some level implied by what I said, but reading it again, I would probably make that point more explicit -- I really wish an Arsenal player had done what Whelan did, for sure.SairaxEboue and Bendtner were checking on Ramsey I thinkSJGgumbyOn the bright side, the trolling must do wonders for this site's hit count. So there's a bright side.

I think there's some truth in the viewpoints that the trolls have so uneloquently (and, in many cases, insultingly) conveyed, and we are sometimes hypocritcal about tackling. Arsenal make a number of bad tackles, even if I'd argue they are often the result of bad-timing rather than negative intent. I'm not sure the leg on the other end of the tackle necessarily cares about the intent though, which is why (for the most part) we punish what a person does rather than what a person thinks. And its probably true that there's a lot of luck (bad luck) involved in the fact that we've had three legs broken and haven't broken any. Part of it is also that our players are just more skillful, so more likely to elude a tackle with the ball but get caught on the legs or to cause a defender to kick out desperately.

That being said, I find it hard for people to argue honestly that teams like Stoke don't go out there to intimidate and bruise. Probably not to break legs, but they sure do seem to go out there to punish, which only increases the odds of an injury. And I do wish there was something the league would do about it, because I really can't blame top players preferring to play in a league like Spain where the chances of their livelihood being taken away are so much smaller. Which is bad for every club in the EPL, as less star players will presumably mean less revenue to spread around. At least that's what I'd expect, though we'll see.Darren_VI don't think anyone here has ever condoned a poor Arsenal challenge, and they are usually admitted as being poor most Gooners, so anyone who uses it as a way to justify Shawcross completely misses the point.
I never knew Stoke had more than 5 people/fans with internet connections. Interesting... I kid, I kid!

MartinThey don't, but Tuesday is "internet day" in the prison computer lab.

I kid, I kid.sandra350Stoke the Towelball Club will be coming to the Emirates to play towelball against a team that plays football - so, as with every Stoke game, for a third of the game we'll have to try to keep awake as we watch a man wipe a ball with a towel.

There must be some kind of towel trophy somewhere in the world for them to win.MartinYes, but you forgot one thing -- they are Barcelona, and they are "mes que un club." They can do whatever they like, and they are still superior to all us lowly non-cules in every conceivable way. Just ask them.sandra350And I say again: HOW MANY OPPONENTS HAVE ARSENAL PLAYERS PUT IN THE HOSPITAL WITH BROKEN LIMBS? When was the last time a player was out for months or even weeks because of a bad tackle by a gunner?sandra350ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT: Why is it that it's ok for Barca to poach youngsters from clubs all over Spain and South America but heaven forbid any club does it to them? BTW, Barca approached 2 of our youngsters, Afobe and Aneke. The deals didn't go thru but it wasn't for lack of them trying.Gigi_manHey Martin, its funny how your blog grows with stupid people haha, instead of them gathering in thier own, they come over and give you tons of replies and I assume somehow you win something out of it.

I think it was Voltaire that replied to someone who told him that they were talking bad about him: "yes, but they are still talking about me".
Kudos! :)

and all the other Stoke and (weird because we had many elegant ones) Barza, man go to your sites and blogs!MartinYeah, didn't expect this much traffic today at all, I have to say. I actually thought the piece was pretty noncontroversial -- shows what I know, I guess.sandra350One more thing re Toral: maybe Barca should complain to Pep and his brother for this transfer rather than Arsenal. After all, the kid's agent is Pep's brother.Illinois GoonerThe Stoke fans in this forum are idiots. They are everything that is wrong with football.KariWell Glad to see Wenger is still pluking at La Masia and get promising 16-year olds for baragin prices. What do Arsenal have to pay, what only €350,000 in compensation this time. Atleast you didn't have to go to court to pay this one. Thats why when Arsenal fans complaing about the tapping of Cesc by Barca over the summer its all fair in my books when Arsenal tempt young players by paying them over 35times more than they earn in Spain(since they can't sign professional contracts at 16,thanks to the Spanish working childhren ban) At least Sergi Samper was strong enough to refuse such temptations. Anywho see you on March 8th and again in the summer when we come to finally get Cesc, or even Nasir.
MartinTwo things:

(1) You'll see that in the post I generally agree with you. But until the rules change, I can't really fault Arsenal for doing the same thing every other club does.

(2) Barcelona tried very hard to get both Benik Afobe and Chuks Aneke from our academy last summer before they turned 17. So Barca have absolutely no moral high ground on this issue just because we were successful and you were not. Not to mention that guy, oh, what's his name, oh yeah, Messi. I don't believe he is from Catalunya, is he? In fact, I'm pretty sure Barca swiped him up as a teenager, and all you had to pay was human growth hormone treatment, if I'm not wrong.

Like I said, I'd prefer if this didn't happen. But the rules allow it, every team (including Barcelona) does it, and it's applying a hypocritical double standard to blast Arsenal for it.Gigi_manSo you come when they are fully developped by us, so whats your complaint?Jack JnrI want to play for Arsenal when i grow up
Go out on the town and smack a bitch up
Just like Jack
Just like JackDaniel AhlsenBreak a leg man, just like Shawcross.Neutral PerspectiveI sincerely hope that Stoke manage to rise above their entirely justified quest for revenge. Fabregas committed a real, violent horror tackle at the end of the match last season. Ramsey broke his leg in a nothing, 50-50 challenge, where both players were equally culpable. Fabregas just went straight in to break Pugh's leg. Arsenal have an awful lot to account for and they've sidestepped the real issues at hand by lying and scapegoating.Chicago Gunneranyone know the tv coverage for this game?MartinIn Canada, being played tape delayed at 5:00 p.m. on Setanta. In the United States, being played tape delayed at 5:00 p.m. on Fox Soccer Plus/foxsoccer.tv. In the UK, being televised live via Sky Sports 1.Homey_MillsWow, I've never seen this blog taken over by trolls like this before. I'm guessing there's no offside blog for Stoke fans, so they're all just coming here.
Anyway, there's been so much nonsense here that I'm not sure where to start. One thing that strikes me as funny is the criticism of Martin and others for watching on tv and not at the game. I dunno... I always thought it was the worldwide appeal of the EPL that caused it to make so much money, and thus attract better players, and thus become an even better league, etc. So when people in the U.S. become just as passionate about a team as people on the other side of the pond, then we're told we're still not real fans.
Regarding the Ramsey/Shawcross thing... I took an approach more in the middle. When I saw the tackle in real time, and also many times on replay, it didn't look that vicious or intentional to me. However, in the aftermath of it, I watched all the tackles that Shawcross committed against other players. And those were some of the more shocking tackles I've seen. So on the whole, I'd say he IS that sort of player, with the Ramsey incident notwithstanding.
Anyway, let's just beat these losers and move on with our ambitions. Then we'll see if they stop by to chat after they've been defeated.MartinYes. A cynical blogger or commenter would note that, for all the accusations of us "not getting over it" or whatever, the last post on the Stoke Offside page got a grand total of 0 comments, but Stoke fans coming out of the woodwork to comment on the preview of another team's page for this one. But since I'm never cynical and always optimistic, I will refrain from doing so.MartinInjury update: van Persie and Koscielny both out injured for this match. Will update in the body of the blog.sandra350For those wanting to see Shawcross' filthy tackle on Ade, you can see it in this excellent compilation of the disgusting tackles we've endured in the last 4 seasons, rightly titled "Enough is Enough"

http: // gunnertalk. com / gunner-episodes/390-gunner-talk-epidode-10

Which other club in Europe has endured THREE broken legs in 4 years?

stokieI only hope he breaks fabrickarses leg tomorrow and Sandra, please ask your husband to take the pc out of the kitchen and do what women do best. Clean!Gigi_manOH FINALLY SOMEONE TRUE, SO ACTUALLY WANT STOKE TO BREAK ARSENAL LEGS...AT LEAST YOU ARE BEING HONEST, SO CANT WRITE THE ANSWER: LEG. BROKEN...OH WAIT I JUST DID..ASDFYeah I think that's how you stoke supporters treat your women...make them clean. Bugger off mate, this is an open forum where all Arsenal fans irrespective of their gender, class, or nationality talk about their beloved team. We Gunners have respect for all bloggers be it male or female and such gender biased comments will not be tolerated. Go Sandra !! Go Gunners !!yanivvery classy.. and where is your pc??? next to the toilet where you shit your brains out??? go easy on the throne mate, you evidently dont have a lot remaining..yahoo-WJQD5PKNAQUQDWPXXRNBUO33ZMI think stoke city ppl only knws how to break the legs of special players..They are a disgrace in English Premier league..im from India but i love football more than cricket where cricket is like a religion..and u knw wat, Arsenal FC is the one who made me realise that i love football..neither barca nor MANURE!!martyn hamptonYou're a typical Arsenal fan in two ways: 1: You've never been to a game. 2: you know next to nothing about football.sandra350BTW, Martin - we're not the only ones who'd been looking at Toral and made him offers - Utd, Chelsea and City all had approached him.MarkI love it - Some 'Arsenal fan' who wasnt there when it happened and wont be there tomorrow lecturing US - Real supporters who support the team in the City they grew up in and who's family support that team rather because they win lots.

yanivand i love it when some fans act as though they are morally superior to others just because they are lucky enough to actually stay in the city of their football club... you have done nothing special... you just live in the city.. we wish we could have that same luck, but till that actually happens, we can look longingly at our beloved club from afar..sandra350And as for Stoke - they're a plague on football. Every time I hear the crap about the Premier League being the "best" in the world, I point people to STOKE. Crap football, crap manager. They should join rugby league. Fkg embarrassment to football. All they know is serial thuggery and fake machismo. They LOVE to portray themselves as tough macho men yet Arsene says ONE thing about one of their players and they WHINE WHINE WHINE for months about it, even making an official complaint to the FA. Hilarious to watch. Arsenal get trashed by opponent managers all the time yet NOT ONCE have we ever made any official complaint to to the FA. Fkg crybabies.

Arsene has made exactly TWO negative comments about Stoke since they were promoted - the way Stoke go on and on and on about it you'd think he talks about them every week. They have a thug classless mentality - and Pulis gets away with CONSTANTLY insulting Wenger all the time to the press. He's never called on it. Imagine if Wenger did the same thing-you'd have the media whipping up hysterical hatred against him for months. The fact that a crap team like Stoke can stay so long in the PL says why so many people around the world just laugh at the idea of the PL being the best in the world.sandra350Martin, Wenger himself said before the Barca game that Arsenal's capture of Cesc is part of the game - just as if Barca came and did the same to us, we'd just have to accept it. Arsenal are not doing anything against the rules - when they change the rules, we won't be able to do it. Yes of course we'd be upset if Barca took one of our youngsters under the same conditions but we couldn't accuse them of doing anything wrong - they'd be doing something perfectly legal and allowable under football rules.

The difference between us and Barca is that we don't conduct CONSTANT never-ending public campaigns in the press trying to drive a wedge between a player we want and the club he plays for as Barca have tried to do with Cesc. We don't have players and officials constantly talking to the press, constantly creating headline stories, constantly trying to use the press to pressure a transfer. That's not how Arsenal behave, because we show respect for other clubs. Barca and Real Madrid don't understand that concept.yanivi agree... and also, i believe its a difference in philosophies... on the one hand i can understand martin's view that in some sense its wrong to buy some other teams young player. but on the other hand its wrong to deny a player his right in choosing whats best of him... thats just basic fundamental human right.. as long as the buying club doesnt use force to bring them, i cant see how that is wrong..MartinGuys, I would never tell you what you can and can't do, but I'll just say that I think the best policy for dealing with all these new fans I seem to have attracted is . . . "don't feed the trolls." Just ignore them. I'm not sure whether they just have an abundance of time or are just thrilled to see a blog talking about their team -- remember, most Stoke blogs look like this:

http://www.google.com/imgres?i...

But obviously we are at loggerheads over the whole Ramsey/Shawcross business, and I can't see them convincing us or us convincing them of the justness of our position.

And to all you Stoke fans reading -- Thanks for coming by, it seems that most of you don't like what I wrote, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Anyway, our compensation is tied to traffic, so by all means keep coming back and spending lots of time and reading and commenting, I really appreciate your dedication to making me slightly less impoverished.grey_manIt's not a matter of agreeing to disagree. It's a matter of putting the record straight. Especially about this lie about Shawcross having broken three players legs. That simply isn't true.Gigi_manDude go read some info!HaynestcmrYou were in the pub for the Stoke game but you'll be there "in spirit" at the Emirates. Real diehard n'est-ce pas?

As you appear to be a rare attendee I can only assume you missed the sendings off of Van Persie, Vieira, Cygan (Si con as he's known in France), Keown, Grimandi, Ian Wright Twat, Tony Adams (and his jail sentence).

Winterburn "liked a tackle", Bergkamp and Titi could "look after themselves", and Bould and Dixon were no shrinking violets (dirty Stoke bastards). Merse was out of it half of his life so just at what point did the Gunners become angels? Certainly not this year judging by the red card league. When Fabregas is not gobbing at people he's lunging into dangerous tackles every time the going gets tough, and waving imaginary red cards in the face of referees. Off the pitch, the Prince of Denmark shows what a prat he is every time he opens his mouth, whilst Wilshere gets lary in nightclubs. Yes Stoke are hard. Yes Stoke are physical. But, by God they are not snivelling, cheating, vile, dirty, whining hypocrites.

Please explain how a manager with 80 reds cards to his players' names (with Arsenal alone) has ANY right to comment on the physical aproach of any other team.Wenger's bit on the sidehe hasn't got 80 red cards, that was earlier in the season, Le Whinge's 800th game (1 red card for every 10 games, that is shocking) since then there have been at least another 4.

I think this is what they call playing football the right way in the USA, Nigeria and wherever else these 'gooners' come fromvHFDear, oh dear, what outrage. Who let all you bumpkins in here?

Martin, are you considering showing the country gentlemen the door?

MartinYeah, it sort of reminds me of when they let the caddies into the pool in Caddyshack -- I feel we're being overrun.

I don't know, I only moderate comments in extreme circumstances, and as much as I disagree with them, it's a viewpoint, and letting people with divergent points of view (even non-Arsenal fans) state them is what this comments section is all about, I guess.

As for the ad hominem attacks on me about being not a real fan, a bad blogger, a homosexual, or whatever . . . what can I say, I've been called much worse by much better. I figure I don't need to defend myself about any of that to anyone whose opinion I care about (the regular readers and commenters).StatesideStokie"Excuse me for taking the lazy blogger’s way out"yanivlol... so points out the guy who just cut and pasted that snippet.. am sure that took a lot of hard work... i mean, thats the anti thesis of lazy... awesome..Wenger's bit on the side'remember watching that game in a bar full of Gunners, and once everyone realized what had happened, the place really got eerily silent. One dude may have been crying, but was definitely hysterical, talking about how the FA should be ashamed of themselves for letting teams like Stoke do things like this'

This is priceless, i dont think i have ever laughted so much. I never realised football matches were shown in gay barsMartinLadies and gentlemen, please welcome homophobia to the stage!

You Stoke fans just keep getting classier and classier, you really do. I normally delete racist, sexist, or homophobic comments, but I think I'll let this stand to show the kind of people we're dealing with here.Wenger's bit on the sidethe kind of people who cry when a footballer suffers an accidental injury common in the game?GoonerBenNo micky, the type of people who find it upsetting when a young professional with a bright future has his leg horribley broken... I would find it equally upsetting if a young stoke player had his leg broken by an Arsenal player. Although what has to stop is the demonisation of players who make a single bad tackle. Debateably Shawcross is not one of these people but I'm willing to give him to benefit of the doubt because he's still quite young. I'm quite surprised by the mass invasion of this blog seeing as, in my eyes, it's one of the most level-headed and reasonable around... Debates are great but the mass trolling and 'overpowering' through sheer volume of comments really is pathetic. Lets hope for a good clean game with no leg breaks or injuries.MartinHere, here.Viva Barca!!I think you mean "Hear, hear"!MartinActually, while "hear, hear" is the traditional usage, "here, here" has usurped it and become the more common spelling of the phrase.yanivwow you must be soooooooo thrilled.. now you can make your way down there... go get all fuzzy there.. its awesome that stoke fans are so open minded that they profess their homosexuality on other forums as well.. good for you... i'm sure you'll be really comfy in your big group hug when your team goes down..Wenger's bit on the sidehighly unlikely mate, have a look at the league table. The oldest club in the premier league are here to stay for a very long timeJose (from BFB)I didn't even know Stoke had trolls!

Anyhow, Martin, I thought you had a very sober take on the Toral transfer, one of the most honest (on either side) I've read thus far. It's easy for us fans to be hypocrites when it comes to matters like these...yanivsry bout posting that under yours.. site problems dint let me post a separate one..yanivlol... this is like stoke fans vs martin..
lets make it easy. which part of has injured multiple players is a lie??? 3 players is multiple... now whether it was intentional or not is another point. can you give any guarantee it wont happen again with your players given the way they play??? no. so why shouldnt we be skeptical about facing stoke. dont take it as a complement that arsenal talks about you. if there is a mosquito in the room, one abuses it till its there. same with the stoke club. till that nuisance of a club is there, we will talk about it. once it goes back to the 2nd tier, which cant happen soon enough, we'll forget bout the club.grey_manIt's a lie in that it's not true. It simply never happened.yanivare you one of those guys who says fossils dont exist, and the sun revolves around stoke city, while the world is flat??? if you want to disprove me, better come up with something better than -thats a lie..grey_manI don't have to prove it because it never happened. He broke Ramseys leg and we can all argue about that, but he never broke anybody else's. The Ramsey incident was also the first time he'd been sent off. You can criticise Stoke for the style of play, but there's no need to peddle lies about players.yanivdude.... wtf??? you want me to post those tackles via youtube??? what does that even mean?? dont peddle lies?????? either the youtube videos are lies, or you havent got a clue... i'm inclined to think its the latter..Old chesnutyaniv, you need to post x-rays. Shawcross has only ever been involved in one challenge that resulted in a break, Ramsey. To suggest anything else is ignorance, or lies.Darren_VYes, one broken leg. In some instances torn liagments can be a much worse injury.
Semantics are a funny thing.Jose (from BFB)Que?MartinI think he was trying to reply to someone else, but Disqus really fouls up all sorts of things.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I do think Arsenal fans can be hypocrites about this sort of thing. On the other hand, Barca were apparently making a pretty hard pitch for Benik Afobe and Chuks Aneke last season, so they're not above it, either.

Like I said, I don't like it, and think it's a bit unfair to the club who loses the player. As Kxevin and I were talking about last night on Twitter, maybe it's fine if it's Barca and Arsenal, who will always have more youngsters and can spend their way out of trouble if need be, but I feel especially bad for some of the smaller clubs (like the Dutch clubs -- Kyle Ebecilio, Jeffrey Bruma, and others have all been poached from them before their 17th birthday in recent years) with this rule.

But it's not against the rules, and if other clubs are doing it, it's hard to really expect Arsenal not to take advantage of something like that. It's going to take FIFA or UEFA coming in and making some rules, or at least getting the clubs to agree to abide by a policy of not signing players before they turn 17, to really fix the problem.BrittanyWhy are you people on an Arsenal blog. You already know what arsenal fans think, what are you trolls doing?Wenger's bit on the sidebecause we fancy you BrittanyWenger's bit on the sideI'm worried about the Stoke female fans and the players' WAGs tomorrow night, if Jack Wilshere and his mates see them will he break their arms?Maddock23Cesc makes a rash challenge every week, but he is a 'gifted visionary with passion' ....hypercritical beyond belief !Gigi_manHOW MANY BROKEN LEGS FROM CESC? OH NO WAIT HE HAD HIS LEG BROKEN...sandra350HOW MANY PLAYERS HAVE ARSENAL PLAYERS BROKEN?Wenger's bit on the sidejust this season there was the young couple outside a London night club, the girl had a broken arm and her fella had serious facial injuries. Then there was the taxi driver just before christmas who was threaten with assault.

You must be really proud of Jack WilshereGigi_manAH, ER, WE TALK ABOUT GAME. UH, UH, IN GAME, LEG, BROKEN.
OUT GAME, NO TALK HEREMartinI would say that you forgot the part where the police said Wilshere hadn't been drinking, wasn't involved in the fracas, and in fact was the one who broke up the fight between the two and kept them separated until the police arrived.

But I suspect you knew that, and, as with your previous comments, were just being intentionally ignorant to try to get a rise out of Arsenal fans.Old chestnutWell lets say Campo, Terry and Nasri then, for starters.

We'll strike off the Wishere comment as he's so obviously of flawless character.Simo54321I could get involved with the inaccuracies and obvious hypocrisy but I really can't be bothered.

What I will offer is constructive criticism as you're clearly new to the blogging game,

instead of ''It was Whelan, remember, who, when all the Arsenal players were alarmed and disgusted by what had happened, had the presence of mine to realize that there was a scared 18 year-old who just had his leg snapped in half laying on the pitch.''

I'd go with ''It was Whelan, remember, who, when all the Arsenal players were too busy trying to get an opponent sent off to give a shit about their teammates, had the presence of mind to realize that there was a scared 18 year-old who just had his leg snapped in half (accidently) laying on the pitch.''

The fact that you think there is no history between the two clubs says it all. Let me guess, you haven’t been to a game (you admit watching them in the pub), think football was created in the 92-93 season and have been following Arsenal since 97-98 (I doubt you’ll understand the relevance but Arsenal won the league that year).
FokweraP'se dont get scared things happen just forget about the past,concentrate for the trophy this session.

ThanxMickyso now Arsenal consider Stoke to be rivals! Does that show how far Arsenal are falling or how far Stoke are progressing? Maybe a bit of both. The last non-traditional rival who hated us so much was Stockport County.
Always good to see another Arsenal article which won't allow the truth to get in the way of a good story, the 'crying to the media' was about a story Wenger invented about Shawcross, all part of his witch hunt, an actual witch hunt not his imaginary witch hunt against serial face spitting, diving and red card waving Barcelona loanee Fabregas.
Hope you all enjoy the match tomorrow, im sure Shawcross will cope with a few boos, if any of your metrosexual ex public schoolboys or American tourists do take it a step too far just remember you still have to come to Stoke this season!Gigi_manBROKEN LEGNot a hypocriteThere is an important difference between (most) fouls committed by Stoke players and those committed by Arsenal players. Stoke players tackle hard, but fairly, as witness their disciplinary record this season. Arsenal players are nasty, vindictive foulers who react with violence when opponents tackle them hard. I know which kind of player I prefer, and it's nothing to do with me being a Stoke fan.sandra350"and it's nothing to do with me being a Stoke fan" - LOL! Yeah, and I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. You really think anyone believes you're capable of any objectivity.

There's NOTHING "fair" about Stoke's serial, cynical thuggery. They don't play football, they just go out to deliberately kick and assault. They don't know any other way, of course, because they're CRAP at actual football. And then there's the classy Pulis - a man who repeatedly makes personal insults and attacks on Wenger to the press. But WHEN have you ever heard Wenger say anything about Pulis?

Arsenal players have FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FIVE YRS finally shown some toughness this season - this team has been too damned nice for too long. We've been at the top of the fair play league for 5 yrs straight and won nothing. We were winning things when we fought back.Simo54321toughness = 6 reds hmmmmmmm. Three times more reds and even committing more fouls in general.

I think it's Stoke that need protecting against premier league bullies like Arsenal. They've always been a dirty team, just look at previous players like Viera, Adams, Keown etc. They are just a bit smaller these days but it's something Wenger obviously coaches (like the diving).

Stoke play to their means and have one unfortunate incident and get labelled with something it took Arsenal decades to build. No wonder you are all jealous.

This blog writing for a reaction is easy, I might give it a go....
GregsparWhilst we have the advantage of being able to offer professional terms to youngsters earlier than the Spanish teams, you could argue that our restrictions on bringing in talent from around the world work massively in their favour. Some continuity of law from country to country would be nice!Visitor51Sh*t happens. Deal with it. You're not winning any friends by constantly dredging the Ramsey incident up. Take a look at the (ill-)discipline tables before you start mud-slinging. Enjoy your season - you're on the edge of winning all...or nothing.Darren_VI wonder how you will feel if your legs ever gets broken like this. I hope you can deal with it.Gigi_manNO, NO SHIT. LEG, BROKEN.Viva Barca!!As Arsenal's disciplinary record this season shows, they're a bit of a dirty team. Hopefully Stoke will give as good as they get!!!Gigi_manU R A SHAME FOR BARZA FANS THAT COME OVER..IWTH SUCH A BEAUTIFUL GAME.
OH WAIT PUYOL BROKE CESC 'S LEG!!Viva Barca!!Could you please re-write that in English? Thanks!!Gigi_manOh and I just thought of something: was that reply to me your best argument...really? So, you ran out of arguments, or you had none. Again, what a shame.Gigi_manAside from my answer below, we can have discussions in your language, Spanish, as I assume you are from Barcelona?
Or in French, or Italian, your choice.
best regards,
Gigi_manViva Barca!!Here's some friendly advice - it is best to learn to speak one language well than to speak multiple languages badly. I humbly suggest that you work on your English first, and move on from there!Homey_MillsSeriously, troll. Please go away. Gigi is one of the best commenters on this blog. As an American who only speaks one language, I appreciate someone who speaks multiple languages. If someone struggles but still tries, why is that so shameful? My gosh. You'd probably hate my wife too, who speaks English as a second language. Ugh. Go away.Gigi_manThx Homey!!! :))) I didnt know I was one of the best commenters...tears in my eyes!Gigi_manWhen you speak the amount of langauges I do, then you come ond give advices on how to.
Do you read yout tem news in Spanish? Catalan? or translated...there can come a language handy!
CheersGigi_manOh now you are acting as this would be an English contest? I take your challenge sir, although I usually write using the well-known (as you may or may not know them, though) internet initials, I can perfectly well communicate in full English.
So, now:
YOU ARE A SHAME AS A BARCELONA FC FAN (THE SO CALLED CULÉS), WHICH I HAPPEN TO BE FRIENDS WITH. I WAS TELLING YOU THAT WITH SUCH A BEAUTIFUL GAME OF YOUR TEAM TO COME OVER AND DISCUSS AS YOU HAVE IT IS REALLY A SHAME, A WASTE IF YOU LIKE, OF SO MUCH TALENT FROM YOUR CLUB YOU COULD BE TALKING ABOUT. AND MY LAST COMMENT WAS THAT YOUR DEFENDER, CARLES PUYOL, BROKE OUR MIDFIELDER 'S LEG.
VERY TRULY YOURS, AND LOOKING FORWARD TO ANY OTHER ENGLISH DRIVEN DUSCISSION,
GIGI-MANmartyn hamptonWow, and that's the 'edited' version?!Viva Barca!!Oh my - I'm sure you gave that your best shot, but I'm afraid it is still makes very tedious reading! Seeing as you've tried to clarify yourself for my benefit, I'll do you the courtesy of analysing what you have said:

"You are a shame as a Barcelona fan" - Check - but why?

"With such a beautiful game of your team to come over and discuss as you have is really a shame" - What??

"A waste if you like, of so much talent from your lcub (sic) you could be talking about" - I think I get what you are saying here, but this is not a blog about Barca so why would I seek to discuss the talents of my Club's players here?

"Your defender, Carles Puyol, broke our midfielder's leg" - You do realise that these things happen in football, don't you? It is a contact sport and accidents will happen.

I hope I've addressed all of your points. Thanks so much for attempting to communicate more clearly!Gigi_manNo, my best shot is for people who pay me and be assured, I have clients in the States and the UK who do pay me :)
As per your questions: "why'", well read/ "what?", what, what? for an English speaking person you don't finish your questions properly/ So, if this is noit a blog about Barza dont call yourself Viva Barca and then we go from there/ OH AND IT DOES SAY "CLUB" YOUR SIC IS NOT WELL USED (and FYI here it wouldn't be English as much as "typos")./ So, it does happen yes, would you say then that Barza is also a bit of a dirty team? I dont think so, so before you answer any question first read your comment: Shawcross has done that MANY times/
Not looking forward to your reply, but will reply in any case.

best regards,
GigiViva Barca!!Thank you for your further contribution, but I am afraid you have not advanced your arguments any further. In those circumstances you have said nothing that warrants a more substantive reply than this. Very happy to learn about your clients though!!Gigi_manWell. Finally you are making sense.
I never said I was going to advance any further in my arguments, it was for you to acknowledge my arguments, in proper English so you could understand them.
Your answer is kind of sad as I feel it is a bit cynical, but I might be mistaken.
If it is, you are entitled, but then YOUR arguments did not go further either.
If you are not, thanks for being happy for my clients and we can be as friends as me and almost every other Barza fan!
sandra350Given that you support a team full of repeated divers who try to get opponents sent off all the time, your hypocrisy is pretty amusing.Viva Barca!!Bleat as much as you like, Arsenal has a terrible disciplinary record. My team is considered the best in the world.ASDFBahahahaha....in the last 1 week, we defeated Barca and drew with Leyton, so logically Leyton is better than Barca. Dude I think you shuld start supporting Leyton now as your team is no more the best in the world.Viva Barca!!What a rational argument! You must be very proud!!! Are you enjoying your mid-term break?Gigi_manat least he HAD an argument...you should use one better than "write in proper English"...Old chestnutThe "multiple injury" comment is hysterical garbage.

I know the list, so here goes:

1) Adebayor raked his studs down Shawcross's chest prior to the 'pay back'. Two wrongs don't make a right, sure - but retaliatory challenges happen in almost every game. Adebayor was out for less than 2 weeks. Adebayor booked for his challenge on Shawcross, no yellow for Shawcross.

2) Francis Jeffers. "Glass ankles" Jeffers, as he has been called at all clubs throughout his career (including at Arsenal), suffers ankle ligament damage and is out for a few weeks. Not a bad, premeditated tackle at all.

3) I'm aware of some tackle that has been dredged up showing Shawcross making a challenge when 17 years old on loan in Belgium when a Manchester United player. Is there a 17 year old centre half playing men's football who hasn't made a rash mistake?

4) Ramsey. There's been enough said about this challenge already.

So in the internet age there are 4 challenges found in a 6+ year career so far. Boo him all you like, but educate yourself first.Darren_V1) Just because there was no yellow for Shawcross, doesn't absolve him of all wrong-doing. Terrible argument.
2) Diaby has suffered injuries all his career. So I guess all who have raked him with studs up should not be responsible for their tackles, since he gets injured anyways. This is ludicrious.
3) Players make rash challenges and injure others. It happens unfortunately. At 17, you would hope he would get realization of the situation.
4) 4th time in 6 years. How many other players have that kind of record of injury others?I guess he hasn't figured out when he is beat to the ball.

Thanks for the education, and showing the he needs to be more aware. CheersOld chestnutHe has injured 3 players. I was addressing the well worn cries of the Arsenal supporters over the past year. No injury occurred in Belgium, much as no injury occurred in Wolverhampton when Fabregas flew in, or when Wilshere did when sent off, or Diaby twice against Bolton, I guess.

1) I clearly said "two wrongs don't make a right". My argument is that you can't wail at Shawcross and absolve Adebayor for his earlier rake. The same Adebayor who later raked Van Persie's face.

2) Diaby has a list of tackles made every bit as long as those received. In Madrid, at Bolton twice for starters. As for your main argument - I was sat right by the Jeffers incident. If there was video footage of it, rather than the Chinese whispers, you might see it as I do (though I doubt it).

3) In Belgium at 17, the Jeffers incident was at the start of his first professional season. In 5 years since, very little. He is learning. I hope your players learn from the red cards this year.

4) Diaby. He broke Campo's foot, Nasri's leg and made an awful challenge on Steinsson, and I think (unless it was another Arsenal player) a challenge in Madrid - and that's without an army of rabid Arsenal fans trawling the internet to aid me.Darren_VNo one absolved Adebayor. Show me where this was done.

I saw a video of the Jeffers incident, albiet abit grainy. There is footage of it, go search.

How many Arsenal red cards have been from poor tackles? Wilshere's is the only one I can recall, and every said he fully deserved the red for it. Just because someone has been shown red, doesn't mean it is for a stupid challenge.

I do not recall the Campo incident. We have no idea what happened with Nasri as no one has ever seen the incident, and the Bolton one was absolutely stupid. I was appalled with that tackle.

No one says Arsenal player's are not muppets (adebayor) or don't dive (Eboue). We do condemn a poor tackle amongst our own players. So maybe some perspective that isn't just your own Stoke perspective can help.

sandra350Shawcross is a serial thug playing in a team with a cynical, classless, thug mentality, managed by a classless manager who makes cheap, personal attacks and insults against Wenger to the press all the time (which Wenger never complains about - and Wenger NEVER says anything about your manager). You play rugby, not football.MartinAh, yes, I had actually forgotten all about the Stoke trolls. Remember that guy last year who claimed that Ramsey's leg was actually broken before Shawcross made contact? And yet, we're the deluded ones.It's a man's gameSome people are deluded yes.

Those who aren't, saw the incident for what it was, a complete accident.

Can you not possibly comprehend that accidental leg breaks can happen in a sport as fast paced as football?sandra350IT WAS A RECKLESS SCYTHE MADE IN A TOTALLY UNNECESSARY AREA OF THE PITCH WITH THE INTENT OF "LETTING THEM KNOW YOU'RE THERE" - in other words, thuggery.BlackJetSandra you should calm down, you'll have a bloody heart attack! Obviously this issue will not be forgotten or forgiven by you lot as facing the fact that it wasn't intentional cannot and will not be considered at any cost.
The booing of Shawcross is to be expected, I doubt if it will affect him too much.
Your manager has repeatedly gone to the media to have a go at Pulis & Shawcross this is fact, even in games that Arsenal are not involved in. Why you won't accept this is beyond belief. Why won't you? Pulis only went to the media himself when your manager kept this up. He hasn't just singled us out either, he's had a pop at Blackburn and Bolton too. In fact in Arsenal's past didn't Viera get sent off and have to serve a 7 (S E V E N) match ban? I think his fine was around the £20,000 mark too. Yes, some of your previous players have been adorable haven't they?

Boo Shawcross all you like, it will be nothing compared to the reception that Wenger is going to get at our place. Will you be coming up to support your team? Somehow I doubt it very much.Robski63Having read some of the barmy posts by some Arsenal 'fans', the ignorance displayed is very alarming, I assume some have been following Arsenal on the internet for three or four seasons and are now think they're experts!

As a neutral in this debate I have to say Stoke are a very hard team (but fair) but Arsenal despite playing some lovely football are a far far dirtier team and commit far worse tackles on a very regular basis, it is sheer luck they haven't inflicted more injuries than they have.

Sandras colossal ignorance is frightening, maybe Andy Gray and Ricjard Keys had a point love?ASDFSo I believe you also are a sexist old twat like Gray and Keys. Oh and yeah i read in one of your posts above that you are a neutral....really ?!?!!martyn hamptonOr in other words, Sandra, utter garbage which you've recycled and continue to spout without contemplating for a single second. What does 'a totally unnecessary area of the pitch' mean? I'll tell you what it means. It means nothing.

A tackle is a tackle is a tackle, no matter where it's performed, and should be executed with a similar regard for safety anywhere on the pitch. It was a 50-50 ball, probably closer to Shawcross than to Ramsey, in fact. Neither player had a right to the ball. They competed for the ball. Ramsey was slightly faster, Shawcross caught him.Gigi_manREALLY? TACKLE IS TACKLE?
NO. TACKLE WITH NO LEG BROKEN IS NO SAME AS TACKLE WITH LEG BROKENmartyn hamptonTerrible point. A tackle is a tackle, yes. A foul is not a tackle, it's a foul. A tackle in which someone breaks their leg is not a foul.

Let's see if I can talk you through this gently.

A foul tackle can only be judged to be so on intent, not outcome. The tackle itself was no worse that 99.9% of tackles made in the football league week in, week out.

Unfortunately Ramsey's foot was planted in the ground. It was a freak, an outlier. It could happen a thousand times and not result in a break. The fact that it did in this instance does not render it a foul.

Top and bottom of it is that it shouldn't even have been a yellow card, and if Ramsey's foot hadn't been planted (not his fault, nobody's fault), and lead to such an horrific injury, then it wouldn't have even gone in the book.

Basically everyone but Arsenal fans concede this.Gigi_manso, you agree with me, there is no such thing as a tackle is a tackle, it has to be judged first. Ramseys foot on the ground? Yes, I saw it going there before Shawcross went for the middle of the leg.Simo54321to be honest Sandra, if all your men like to watch football in the pub while crying to each other then I think you need some perspective on strength and masculinity that would help you understand this situation and competitive sport in general.RobHahahaha! What a load of shit. You can boo in disgust all you want, it doesn't make it any less of an accident. People in the real world realise that it was an accident. It's only hysterical, crying girls like you that believe it was actually meant to hurt Ramsey. If you want to go on about us being dirty, I suggest you look at the disciplinary charts for this season. Or would that not suit your agenda?

George Graham. Remember him? Boring, boring Arsenal. Remember that? 1-0 to the Arsenal. That was a good one.

You're nothing but a know-nothing hypocrite whose opinion matters not one jot. Good luck with your blog. Even if it is shit.

One Ryan Shawcross.Darren_VActually there are many mindless english players with no respect of other's wellbeing like ShawcrossStokeLadHysterical garbage .. as per ...It's a man's gameYou've really got to let the Shawcross thing go.

The fact he has injured 'multiple' players, is also a lie.

Some of the 'tackles' that Cesc Fabregas has attempted whilst at Arsenal are nothing short of a disgrace, not to mention the Hull incident.

How did you feel when Tony Adams and Martin Keown used to play for your team, i don't recall those players going in half hearted? Proper English centre halves, who unfortunately, thanks mainly to teams such as Arsenal, will be vilified from now on.

If you check the number of fouls committed, yellow and red cards, you will see that Arsenal are in fact outscoring Stoke City in all 3 areas.

Perhaps you should try to be a little less blinkered when writing future reviews.

You should probably watch the Ramsey/Shawcross incident again too. Anyone who genuinely thinks it was malicious wants committing to a mental hospital.Gigi_manSo...Shawcross breaking some legs is just coincidence..? ok, then I am going to a mental hospital! But in all fairness, as the old say goes: fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me; thanks but I wont be fooled by Shawcross.
Oh and bTW how many legs have Cesc, Adams or any other Arsenal player broken?Martin"The fact he has injured 'multiple' players, is also a lie."

Sigh. Honestly, you have a computer; you have google. At least spend 5 seconds using it before you spout nonsense.

When Francis Jeffers was playing for Sheffield Wednesday, Shawcross poleaxed him down. Jeffers tore his ankle ligaments, had to be stretchered off, and was out three months. In November 2008, Shawcross came from behind to tackle Adebayor, who was off the pitch standing out of bounds at the time, and injured him for nearly a month.

Multiple means more than one. That's at least 3 players Shawcross has injured with bad tackles. I'm interested to know what your definition of "lie" is, because it's obviously quite different from mine and the rest of the world's.Arsene VaderShawcross' tackle on Adebayor was no worse than Cesc's on Danny Pugh. Furthermore, it was Jeffers' poor touch which took the ball away and meant that he had to adjust his stance. Had his touch been better, Shawcross would've won the ball as Jeffers wouldn't have re-adjusted his stance. Seeing as you were talking about naive kids with Ramsey, I thoguht you may have considered this with the Shawcross who tackled Jeffers.Illinois GoonerThat's probably the dumbest rationalization I've heard for a bad tackle. When you go in for a tackle, not matter how the other player is positioned, it should NEVER result in breaking the opponents leg. If it does, it was a "horror" tackle and 100% the defenders fault. When you repeatedly commit leg-breaking tackles it makes you a cynical bad-natured person. If you didn't like breaking legs, you would stop torpedoing in at peoples ankles.Gigi_mandid he break his leg?? No? well, then Shawcross did!sandra350"Shawcross' tackle on Adebayor was no worse than Cesc's on Danny Pugh" - no, it wasn't, and neither is the rest of your ludicrous justification for Shawcross' serial thuggery. Did you even SEE what Shawcross "tackle" on Ade? Even the very lenient commentators condemned it. Shawcross has several priors - not just the ones Martin mentioned. Early in his career he broke another youth player's ankle. By the age of 22 he'd broken 3 opponents' legs. Just STOP the bullshit rationalizations of a PROVEN serial thug.grey_manActually that's a lie. I can't be bothered to argue beyond that.Old chestnutWith respect, which 3 opponents are these, Sandra350. Please name them and we'll all go away.Old chestnutSo can you point me to your Diaby assassination piece?

...or the other 80%+ of footballers who have injured "multiple" players in a contact sport.blog comments powered by Disqus